Moby Explains Why Music Today is Shit

[MusicLover7]

Moby had one of those “old guy conversations” with Bill Maher this week and they discussed why music today is pretty ordinary.

“I’ve got Spotify on my phone and when I first got it I thought I would hear all this new music but immediately I began using it as my nostalgia machine,” Moby told Maher. “Spotify is basically my high school playlist. My musical tastes end around 1984. Modern music might be great but it can’t complete with The Clash or Public Enemy or John Lennon or Neil Young, on and on and on.”

https://www.noise11.com/news/moby-ex...9f8a-302566781

[Foxhound]

Here's a Youtube clip elaborating on the same thesis:



The fellow argues that there's been a dramatic increase in homogenization/sameness of pop music these days across both specific artists' catalogues as well as across artists. There's been a dramatic decrease in timbral diversity in pop music over the last fifty+ years. Moreover present day pop hits all tend to feature the "millennial whoop" sound pattern which is not at all surprising since the majority of pop hits these days are written by one of two fellows, Max Martin or Lukasz Gottwald.

[Foxhound]

Here's another very good article about the music that dominates hit charts these days:

Is Pop Music Fake? - The New Yorker

Originally Posted by The New Yorker

Almost all the music you hear on Top Forty radio these days is made on machines. You may hear a real guitar once in a while, but an actual drum sound is pretty rare.

Originally Posted by The New Yorker

But was it just the whiskey talking, or was Grohl onto something? The gist of the backlash against his comments was that in extolling the playing of an instrument over the programming of a computer, Grohl was privileging rock over dance, electronica, and hip-hop.

Interesting that sneering at recordings done by computers is seen by some as politically incorrect these days. And expecting groups to play their own instruments is somehow "elitist" and "hurtful" to certain groups.

Another one:

Yup, it really does all sound the same.

And a quickie:

Science Proves: Pop Music Has Actually Gotten Worse - Smithsonian.com

A quick executive summary:

The video and articles address the increasing homogenization/sameness of pop music these days across both many artists' individual catalogues as well as across artists. Modern pop music all sounds the same (awful) because of lack of variety in four ways:

1. Tonal/frequency range. There's been a dramatic decrease in timbral diversity in pop music over the last fifty+ years meaning there's not as much range these days between the highest and the lowest notes in pop hit recordings.

2. Lack of dynamic range. It's all LOUD, as opposed to soft, soft, LOUD or soft, soft, soft, LOUD. This phenomenon has come to be termed the "Loudness Wars". And these loudness wars have also decreased the tonal range of pre-existing recordings because in order to get extra loudness throughout an entire recorded piece, the tonal range must be concentrated/compressed into the mid range frequencies. The way this is done is by clipping the extreme high and low notes from the recording. That's right, notes are clipped from recordings and presto, we're left with a LOUD but lossy recording.

3. Drummers with as wide a variety of drum beats and styles as the human imagination permits have been replaced in recording studios by drum machines operated by recording engineers. Sorry, but if you rely on the imagination of recording engineers, variety is the last thing you're going to get.

4. Present day pop hits all tend to feature the "millennial whoop" chord structure, i.e. sound pattern. This is not at all surprising since at the time these articles were written, the majority of pop hits were being composed by one of two fellows, Max Martin or Lukasz Gottwald.

[BeatlesFan3287]

And expecting groups to play their own instruments is somehow "elitist" and "hurtful" to certain groups.

This reminds of one of the main reasons generation Z hates rock music; they seem to associate it with white bigotry and consider the genre too white overall. They don't seem to realize that most rock stars are/were left leaning and that the genre has had a fair number of African Americans and other non white performers over the years.

[BeatlesFan3287]

I think the rise of streaming has done more than anything else to dumb down popular music.

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by BeatlesFan3287

This reminds of one of the main reasons generation Z hates rock music; they seem to associate it with white bigotry and consider the genre too white overall.

If that's true, it would certainly not say much for the intellectual perceptiveness of the whole generation.

Originally Posted by BeatlesFan3287

They don't seem to realize that most rock stars are/were left leaning....

Not that there's any reason why there should be any kind of correlation between musical creativity/excellence and "left leaning" political beliefs or those of any stripe. And why would anyone be so daft as to assess music in light of an artist's political leanings?

Originally Posted by BeatlesFan3287

...that the (rock) genre has had a fair number of African Americans and other non white performers over the years.

Indeed, with Jimi Hendrix being perhaps at the very top of the list of legendary rock guitar players! Moreover modern rock actually evolved directly from the post-World War II rhythm and blues popular with the black community in the States. I don't believe that this Generation Z has much interest in the black artists that appeared up high on the R&B charts back in the day. Nor does any of the music which dominates the hit charts these days seem to have been much influenced by these old black bluesmen or soul singers. I wonder how many Generation Zers have even heard of Sonny Boy Williamson, B.B. King, Muddy Waters, Little Walter, Howlin' Wolf, Willie Dixon, Elmore James, Chuck Berry, James Brown, Solomon Burke, Ben E. King, Otis Redding, Aretha Franklin, Wilson Pickett, etc?

[dr wu]

Well..the current Grammy nominees certainly support Moby's ideas.
But I have never followed the top 40 except when I was young in the 60's and early 70's. I got into album oriented music in 1970 and never looked back.

[BeatlesFan3287]

Not that there's any reason why there should be any kind of correlation between musical creativity/excellence and "left leaning" political beliefs or those of any stripe. And why would anyone be so daft as to assess music in light of an artist's political leanings?

I'm just commenting on the excuses I've heard generation Z give for hating rock music; particularly their accusation that rock music is white and racist (and I'm pointing out that this accusation has no weight since most rock stars including the white ones are liberal and therefore most likely not racist). I agree that a rock star's political stance doesn't have any real bearing on their creativity and innovation, but apparently that notion is lost on most young people.

[BeatlesFan3287]

For me, worse than any of the aforementioned is the vocal style that seems to have dominated pop music over the past ten years. Nearly every pop song I've heard seems to have the same breathy choppy vocals (both male and female).

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by BeatlesFan3287

I'm just commenting on the excuses I've heard generation Z give for hating rock music; particularly their accusation that rock music is white and racist....

And the same people I'm sure want their attitudes, their stupidity, to be enshrined by law. How long will it be before music is subject to the same cancel culture we've been seeing in other media?

Originally Posted by BeatlesFan3287

Nearly every pop song I've heard seems to have the same breathy choppy vocals (both male and female).

Yes. Rhythmic chanting a.k.a. rap lite.

[BeatlesFan3287]

And the same people I'm sure want their attitudes, their stupidity, to be enshrined by law. How long will it be before music is subject to the same cancel culture we've been seeing in other media?

Don't even get me started on cancel culture. Seriously if we were to ban the works of every artist, innovator, creator or whatever that has done shady things in their lives, we would effectively erase all our history, culture and achievements. We would be starting back at the stone age. I guess that's what these people want though.

[Foxhound]

Here's another video on the same subject:

[Buckeye Randy]

I disagree with people that say there isn't any good music coming out. I will say that classic radio won't help you find it.

I visit several websites every Friday that feature lists of new releases. I check out as many as time permits and save some of the interesting things into a file for future listening. I whittle that down throughout the week and try to only save the best. I would say 75% of my music listening is dedicated to the listening of new releases. At the end of the year I try to sum it all up into a nice list.

I just did a quick look at my list and here are some of the 2022 songs that I like (condensed version). It includes a little, funk, country, pop, classic artists and some people you've never heard of.

1st Quarter
Down To The Devil - Naked Gypsy Queens
You - Buzzard Buzzard Buzzard
Meant For Livin' - Mondo Cozmo
Nothing To Lose - Foxy Shazam
Who Loves Ya - Chubby and the Gang
When I Lay My Bones To Rest - Scorpions
Misfits & Freaks - The Courettes
Queen Of The Bees - Jack White
Bad Reputation - Kid Rock
Rich - Yard Act
Stylin' - Stone Foundation

2nd Quarter
Talking to Myself - The Linda Lindas
Daytona Sand - Orville Peck
Blue Foot Groovy - Joe Satriani
You Gotta Pass It Around - Nazareth
Drinkin' Wine Spo-Dee-O-Dee - Taj Mahal, Ry Cooder
Zick Zack - Rammstein
Mad About You - Televisionairies
Tired Of It - Grade 2 (acoustic)
Let's Rock - JD McPherson
Your Team Is Looking Good - The Black Keys
See Where The Night Goes - Goodbye June
Mojo Hand - The Cold Stares
Rock Bottom - Kevin Morby

3rd Quarter (so far)
Baby Criminal - Baby Viagra
Hard Working Man - Marcus King
Suzie - The Von Bondies (this would be leading for song of the year if it wasn't an archive release)
Ain't My Job - Tami Neilson
Scam Likely - Wilder Maker
Up - Dune Rats
Hiding In Plain Sight - For The Record
Stick To Your Guns Pookie - Pkew, Pkew, Pkew

Is there a thread to talk and post about good new music? I'm kind of new around here.

[Foxhound]

Originally Posted by dr wu

But I have never followed the top 40 except when I was young in the 60's and early 70's.

That's because the Top 40 in those days was people's introduction to good music.

Originally Posted by Buckeye Randy

I disagree with people that say there isn't any good music coming out. I will say that classic radio won't help you find it.

But that's precisely the point! WHY is the music that's played on mainstream/contemporary/top 40 stations so bad these days? It was very good back in the 1960's and for a little while anyway back in the 1970's.

My expectation is that what's played on the radio should be good. I shouldn't have to "mine" obscure outlets and dark corners to find good music. The radio should continue to be where I'm introduced to good music. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

Originally Posted by Buckeye Randy

I just did a quick look at my list and here are some of the 2022 songs that I like (condensed version).

Interesting list! Yes, I'd certainly like to hear from that list of tracks.

But are any of those tracks played on contemporary hit radio stations these days? Are they hits with today's listening audience? That's the question.

Or phrasing the same question another way, "Why is the most popular music these days such crap?"

Originally Posted by Buckeye Randy

]Is there a thread to talk and post about good new music?

There's a whole 00's forum:

https://www.crf2.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Which is where this very thread is located!

[Buckeye Randy]

Originally Posted by Foxhound

Interesting list! Yes, I'd certainly like to hear from that list of tracks.

But are any of those tracks played on contemporary hit radio stations these days? Are they hits with today's listening audience? That's the question.

That's why I spend at least an hour on Friday morning looking at sites with new releases.

I have heard several of those songs on Akron's public radio and satellite radio will play some but neither of those are what I consider 'real' radio.

The fact remains there really is interesting music out there, it just takes a little effort.

I feel a little guilty not supporting more younger artists. I've been to a decent amount of shows since last September and only two shows were by an artist that released their first album since 2000 (Flogging Molly, The Dollyrots).

Several were by older artists still putting out great material and promoting new releases but most were older artists just playing old material. Shows include; Violent Femmes, Grand Funk, Todd Rundgren x2, Cheap Trick, Kasim Sulton's Utopia, Donnie Iris, Dead Milkmen, Bouncing Souls, Sparks, Dropkick Murphys, Nick Lowe, Tinsley Ellis.

Upcoming tix bought for classic rockers Pat Travers, Foghat and Alice Cooper.

[Marshall Stack]

Basically music isn't shit today.. and Foxy posted the most common misnomer that ''Do popular radio stations play them? "... the simple answer to that is no!
That's because radio as we know it today is very limited in it's dimensions and sadly is operated under profiling.
The odd show is dedicated to new stuff... but like the actual records or CD's they take a little searching. It's a strange catalyst that is connected to how we listen and purchase music today. I often wonder if the latest Deep Purple album was able to miraculously come out of my Dansette mono crappy player back in the 70's... would I have toddled off to town to purchase said album at £2.49 a pop?.... I most likely would- but millions would have sat in their bedrooms and listened 'automatically' like the X-Box warriors of today. Maybe the lack of exposure of music on TV and A&R men wearing out shoe leather hawking discs up every main St. has stifled the art of song making?.... Or that music... let's say from '59 to' 79 was of that era alone... just like horse and carts and gas lamps faded away. When you look at bands and, artists of say the Album Era.... there was a pattern - they retreated to remote places and houses or locations.. Stargroves, Brón Yr Aur, Redland, Montreax etc... wrote an album, recorded it and then took it on the road for a year. Australian punk is thriving, decent rock and folk bands abound.... and online is now the place, whereas Tower Records was the venue previously. If a new bands song is fortunate to be a sound bed in a global ad campaign... the leg work is done. I don't have an answer, just a hypothesis... that maybe the new way of listening and creating music... Inturn creates new sound... I'm sure the majority of Country Joe or Bad Company fans didn't dig Mantovani much.

[Buckeye Randy]

Good points!

Originally Posted by Marshall Stack

That's because radio as we know it today is very limited in it's dimensions and sadly is operated under profiling.

It is no longer driven by the music industry, it is driven by advertising dollars and demographics. It is indeed very sad for music fans.

Originally Posted by Marshall Stack

It's a strange catalyst that is connected to how we listen and purchase music today. I often wonder if the latest Deep Purple album was able to miraculously come out of my Dansette mono crappy player back in the 70's... would I have toddled off to town to purchase said album at £2.49 a pop?.... I most likely would- but millions would have sat in their bedrooms and listened 'automatically' like the X-Box warriors of today.

First off, I thought that latest Deep Purple release was pretty good. Secondly, I like your time machine!

I remember in 1976, it was a big deal when Elektra/Asylum Records upped the cost of an LP to somewhere north of $7. I think the first two releases impacted were Hotel California and A Day At The Races (don't quote me on that).

That price was nearly 4x the minimum wage in America at the time. However....a concert ticket to see Queen (Thin Lizzy opening) on that tour in Cleveland was $7.00. A new LP and a concert ticket for a major act were equal.

What do we have now? You do the math. Basically, it was explained to me this way. In the '70's, bands toured for next to nothing to sell more albums, that's where the real money was. Now, albums are free and the band makes money from touring.

Originally Posted by Marshall Stack

let's say from '59 to' 79 was of that era alone... just like horse and carts and gas lamps faded away. When you look at bands and, artists of say the Album Era.... there was a pattern - they retreated to remote places and houses or locations.. Stargroves, Brón Yr Aur, Redland, Montreax etc... wrote an album, recorded it and then took it on the road for a year.

I think another difference was how patient a record label was and how they were actually committed to a band.

Originally Posted by Marshall Stack

If a new bands song is fortunate to be a sound bed in a global ad campaign....

Amazing how music in TV commercials has changed over the the years. Ads used to have product specific jingles. Now they just tap music that is known and often unknown.

Originally Posted by Marshall Stack

I'm sure the majority of Country Joe or Bad Company fans didn't dig Mantovani much.

Who is Mantovani?

[Marshall Stack]

Yeah, First Aid Kit hit paydirt with Silver Lining for Renault cars... And Vashti Bunyon actually saw real money for once when Diamond Day was used. My three kids always send me links for new stuff. Buckeye.. you are spot on as regards radio.. and imagine that a radio presenter or 'pre selected tune provider' is now forced to play a song or artist of colour every second song... utter bollocks!