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Old 07-10-2015, 04:41 PM   #1
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Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock - Ul


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Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock
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In news that should surprise absolutely no one, Kid Rock has defiantly dismissed protesters offended by his use of the Confederate flag at concerts. The Michigan-born singer and rapper was the focus of a recent Fox News segment (which you can watch ...

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Old 07-10-2015, 05:25 PM   #2
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Exclamation Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

I'll continue to avoid Kid Rock concerts, albeit the presence of the Confederate flag is hardly the reason. That would instead be the absence of talent.

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Old 07-11-2015, 03:38 PM   #3
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

I don't care if he does or doesn't--I think it in questionable tastes, but I don't look to rockers for good taste anyway--but I love how he told Al Sharpton's bunch of shake-down artists to take a hike.

Or words to that effect. If more would do that, life would be better.

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Old 07-11-2015, 08:14 PM   #4
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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The Michigan-born singer and rapper was the focus of a recent Fox News segment discussing the protest of a museum exhibit in Detroit devoted to his career.
I doubt if an exhibit to Kid Rock's career could fill a museum cloakroom.
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:20 AM   #5
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Exclamation Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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Originally Posted by Joey Self View Post
I don't care if he does or doesn't--I think it in questionable tastes, but I don't look to rockers for good taste anyway--but I love how he told Al Sharpton's bunch of shake-down artists to take a hike.

Or words to that effect. If more would do that, life would be better.
I agree on both counts!

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Old 07-12-2015, 10:36 AM   #6
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In the usual application of the law of unintended consequences, people rallying for the flags removal are providing financial opportunities for those who support it or are even indifferent to it. Truly a nation of fish.


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Old 07-12-2015, 10:44 AM   #7
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

The flag means different things to different people. I grew up with the Dukes of Hazard and to me it just means being a rebel. IMO Kid Rock is doing exactly this by continuing to use the flag. It’s doubtful he is a racist considering he has a mixed race son that he raised himself and he has also been a big supporter of the NAACP over the years.

What this is boiling down to is hyper political correctness and a mob mentality where a symbol can only have one meaning and if you use it you deserve a label. I respect his decision to not change in the face of that. Artists shouldn’t bow to the PC mob.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:52 AM   #8
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Exclamation Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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In the usual application of the law of unintended consequences, people rallying for the flags removal are providing financial opportunities for those who support it or are even indifferent to it.
Truth! And more than ever now the Confederate flag will become a symbol of rebellion against the establishment.

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Old 07-13-2015, 10:43 AM   #9
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. The incoming Lincoln administration and most of the Northern people refused to recognize the legitimacy of secession. They feared that it would discredit democracy and create a fatal precedent that would eventually fragment the no-longer United States into several small, squabbling countries."

There you have it, the Confederate flag was a symbol of rebellion against anti-slavery. How could it be anything else? Not to acknowledge this would be disingenuous or to be ignorant of our country's history.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:18 PM   #10
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. The incoming Lincoln administration and most of the Northern people refused to recognize the legitimacy of secession. They feared that it would discredit democracy and create a fatal precedent that would eventually fragment the no-longer United States into several small, squabbling countries."

There you have it, the Confederate flag was a symbol of rebellion against anti-slavery. How could it be anything else? Not to acknowledge this would be disingenuous or to be ignorant of our country's history.
The “rebel” flag wasn’t the flag of the South.
It was the flag of the Northern Virginia regiment of the Southern Army. It does not have a direct meaning towards slavery. The actual southern flag – the stars and bars - was a version of the US flag except it only had three red and white horizontal stripes. A big part of the rebel (Dixie) flag debate is believing that it was the flag of the South. It wasn't.

Regarding the Civil War – it was fought over money, not slavery. It can be argued that slaves are a form of currency but outlawing slavery was not the issue that started the war. Wall Street, in cahoots with several congressmen and Lincoln, levied extra taxes and tariffs against southern industries that northern industries didn’t have to pay. The south could dodge these extra taxes and tariffs if they became public companies and sold shares on the stock exchange – something they didn’t want to do. So they succeeded over the belief they were being unfairly taxed. And of course they failed.
In the end what became known as “carpet baggers” (bankers) swooped in and stole much of the southern wealth while they stood defeated. Freeing the slaves was just another way to weaken them while looking rightous as they stole.

Sure slavery was a topic – but it wasn’t the main topic or reason for war. As usual money is the reason we go to war. There is no record of any southern soldier joining the fight to “defend slavery” or a northern soldier enlisting to “end slavery”. There were as many racists in the north as there were in the south – and there still are. Slavery wasn’t the big issue during the war to the bulk of the population. Certainly not a big enough issue to make most people decide to risk their lives. But bankers have a way of making real history disappear. History is written by the winners.

To me the rebel flag now means rebelling against the establishment and the ignorance that has become “political correctness”.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:44 PM   #11
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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To me the rebel flag now means rebelling against the establishment
Against the establishment that wanted to end slavery.



How about this 'rebel' flag?

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Old 07-13-2015, 12:56 PM   #12
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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Against the establishment that wanted to end slavery.



How about this 'rebel' flag?



Essentially the south succeeded for the same reason we rebelled against Britain – unfair taxation. That is the real history of the civil war. As usual, it was started and finished by bankers mischief.

I never cared for the rebel flag much. But I never cared for group labeling either. In this case I choose the side of individual rights. The flag doesn’t mean racism to everybody. But public sentiment now destroys all other meanings and I find that sad.

Its also sad that a small group of big mouth racists can take over and define a symbol to everyone. Why give them that power. I mentioned before that the most used sign by racists is the holy cross. How long before that becomes a racist symbol? “My mother had to endure a flaming cross on her front yard and then they hung my father – how dare you wear that cross.”

Let’s not give tiny racist groups (or bankers) the power to influence our culture or rewrite our history.
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:02 PM   #13
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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Essentially the south succeeded for the same reason we rebelled against Britain – unfair taxation. That is the real history of the civil war. As usual, it was started and finished by bankers mischief.

I never cared for the rebel flag much. But I never cared for group labeling either. In this case I choose the side of individual rights. The flag doesn’t mean racism to everybody. But public sentiment now destroys all other meanings and I find that sad.

Its also sad that a small group of big mouth racists can take over and define a symbol to everyone. Why give them that power. I mentioned before that the most used sign by racists is the holy cross. How long before that becomes a racist symbol? “My mother had to endure a flaming cross on her front yard and then they hung my father – how dare you wear that cross.”

Let’s not give tiny racist groups (or bankers) the power to influence our culture or rewrite our history.
If you don't think slavery is the underlying cause of the Civil War, you're the one that's re-writing history. Are you seriously implying that absent slavery in the South, there would still have been secession and Civil War?
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:38 PM   #14
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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If you don't think slavery is the underlying cause of the Civil War, you're the one that's re-writing history. Are you seriously implying that absent slavery in the South, there would still have been secession and Civil War?
I wish wars were fought for moral reasons - but they are not. The civil war included. The bankers were going to get the South one way or the other. Slavery was wrong but more important - it was a great excuse to steal. History is changed to make the wealthy look good.
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:00 PM   #15
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

No one mentioned that slavery began in the Union (the north). Maryland was the hub for slavery and slaves entering the States. Maryland, incidentally, was excluded from the Emancipation Proclamation. The north warned to keep their slaves......atleast for another year until the State of Maryland passed its own Constitution abolishing slavery. However, this constitution gave rights only to whites......hence it was still racist. Maryland wasn't the only state given exclusion, either. These were all tactics to gain financial and governing control over 10 southern confederate states.......to end secessation


Another thing people don't realize about the Emancipation Proclamation it only freed slaves but didn't make it unlawful to own slaves nor did slaves become citizens of the Union. The Union left many loopholes that still allowed slavery to continue.

Slavery was not truly abolished until the 13th Amendment which was adopted and put into law 12/18/1865.

But we all know from history, the free slaves had no rights.......both in the north and south. They became cheap labor, which was just another form of slavery but more acceptable to the Union.

In a nut shell, the war was about control and money......an acceptable control that cost whites very little.
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Old 07-13-2015, 06:24 PM   #16
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Exclamation Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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Originally Posted by hodad View Post
Against the establishment that wanted to end slavery.
"Ending slavery" isn't exactly a defining feature of the establishment these days though. Pressure on acts such as Kid Rock to stop displaying Confederate flags will only give the Confederate flag more currency/panache as a symbol of counter culture rebellion against the establishment. It's already happening in fact.

It's interesting though. Back in the late sixties all young fellows such as myself had to do to annoy the oldsters including our own parents was to grow our hair long. These days though it must be a lot harder for kids since most parents were dirty degenerate drug addict hippies/Communists/whatever themselves not too long ago. Therefore the present storm of controversy regarding the Confederate flag is handing kids an icon of youthful rebellion on a platter.

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Old 07-13-2015, 06:41 PM   #17
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Exclamation Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

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Originally Posted by butch View Post
But bankers have a way of making real history disappear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by butch View Post
As usual, it was started and finished by bankers mischief.

Let’s not give tiny racist groups (or bankers) the power to influence our culture or rewrite our history.
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The bankers were going to get the South one way or the other.... History is changed to make the wealthy look good.
Butch you gotta give this bankers' thing of yours a rest. I mean what do you do with your money, bury it behind the garage? Besides, history is a lot more complicated than "It was all a conspiracy on the part of the big money bankers."

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Old 07-13-2015, 07:29 PM   #18
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Re: Kid Rock Refuses to Stop Displaying Confederate Flag ... - Ultimate Classic Rock

Although many see the Confederate flag today as just a sign of rebellion a very large segment of the population see the same flag as a symbol of slavery, oppression and racism. How would you feel about that flag if your ancestors were brought over here in chains and sold into slavery? Have a little sensitivity. There are other ways to show one's rebelliousness.
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